Ntsika, and VERVE, have introduced me to the expansive world of local music, of which I was blissfully unaware. The more artists we meet, the more perspectives I get to understand, and the more my horizons expand. But as varied as the local music scene is, I’ve never actually thought of it within the context of our city.

What is the sound of Cape Town? Do we have a sound? To be fair I had never even considered the question before I sat down with Seth Grey.

I ran into Seth Grey at the Listening Experience vol 4 last December, finally meeting him after years of listening to my younger brother hype him up. He had even dragged me along to watch Seth perform at The River Club way back in 2018.

When we eventually got together for an interview this month at Kaya Cafe, Seth walked in buzzing with energy, an energy which I found infecting me too, and little did I realise how deeply I would resonate with him and his story. What started out as an interview ended up becoming a much deeper chat about life, passion, and Soul

So, tell us about Seth Grey?

“Yoh where do I even start. ‘Who is Seth Grey?’ - that question has been on my mind quite a bit this year. I’ve been trying to figure out what I want to do for myself in this music scene, because I feel like I’ve been doing so many things. If you think about me, the first thing you think about is music because I love all of it in all of its forms. I’ve been in music for so long in so many different spaces. I’ve been trying to figure out which space I’m supposed to fit into, not realising that I don't need to mould myself to these spaces.”

“Seth is just a guy that wants to be surrounded by music and wants to learn from other people. Sometimes people see me as a guy who knows so much about music, but the reason why I care so much about the knowledge of music is because I constantly want to learn. One of my GOATs Herbie Hancock mentioned in a Robert Glasper interview that the reason why he’s always falling in love with music is because he’s always trying to learn from someone else.”

“That really struck me, because I realised that as a musician your identity and everything you do is learned from another artist. I’ve really taken that into my philosophy in the sense that whomever I work with, whether they are further than me in the industry or just starting out, I try to learn something from them.”

“Moving into Cape Town now after living in Somerset West for so long, I’ve been trying to immerse myself in the scene fully. The Cape Town scene is big, but it's separate at the same time. How do we get to that space where we’re one big melting pot of Hip-Hop, alt-rock, punk, jazz, neo soul,house - how do we get to the space where it’s a music hub?”

“I’ve been trying to figure out how I can be a part of that, how I can be a part of getting Cape Town to a place where people think of it as a music city. Internationally and locally.”

“Seth Grey just wants to be a part of the story of getting Cape Town’s music scene to the world.”

And what more is Seth Grey up to these days? I remember that you were always quite active on the socials, posting videos of you singing and playing keyboard, releasing singles here and there, and you were even dropping beat tapes on Soundcloud, but you’ve been on hiatus for the past couple years. What brought you back to the scene?

“I was having a really cool conversation with Zwide from Kujenga the other day. And I think every artist I speak to would understand what I'm saying.”

“When you're creating art, you know that there’s something spiritual that’s happening, that something is coming to you and you’re just laying it down. Who says that idea is yours? Was it meant for me? If so then I’m being selfish with it, because if it was given to me, it's my responsibility to release it to the world. And I think in my career, why things have been stifled is because I’m too scared to do that releasing part. But I’ve realised that’s not serving me as an artist. As open as I am to receiving these ideas, I’m trying to learn how to let them channel out.”

“The videos you’re referring to were more on the cover songs side. Singing to people just comes naturally to me, that’s one thing that I’ve never stopped. Even when I wasn’t writing or producing, when I wasn't creating, I was on stage. I've been doing it since I was 4, it’s the one thing I know how to do, the one thing I don't need to stress about.”

“I do see them as two different art forms, performing and making music. I feel like I’ve invested enough time in both where I need to decide what I’m going to do with it. It's the writing of music and releasing my original music that I’m trying to get into the spirit of.”

From a personal perspective, that’s definitely something that I’ve struggled with, to the point that I’ve kind of put my goals aside in the past couple years to focus on being a chef, and then to focus on building VERVE. How do you get that point of telling yourself “I’m done learning, I need to lock in and do something now”?

“The whole of last year I got a chance to focus on my personal life - settling down, getting married, moving in, all that. That was a big goal for myself, but now that’s done I need to look at my other goal. Once you do all that, you realise that isn't all there is to life. There’s a side to me that’s still itching to do more in the Cape Town scene. And I’m trying to figure out if it's for my own validation, because if I look back at my career I think I have done a lot. I'm pretty sure my younger self would be stoked.”

“But I think my biggest dream is to release one of those projects that people can attach to this city. When I think of that I think of Say My Name by Claire Phillips, how iconic it was, and how it represents the sound of Cape Town. If we think of African Jazz, Kujenga’s ‘In The Wake’ definitely encapsulates that. But just in the scope of the Coloured community in the city, the Cape Town Soul sound, we’ve been struggling and it’s been dying down a bit.”

“I want to come through and say “This is our sound”. Even if I look at how successful Are You Jazz is at the moment, it's because they’re doing authentic Cape Town Music. Yes some of it is cover music, some of it is our own music, but if you look at it sonically that’s our sound.”

“What I’m trying to do and why I haven't released an album yet is because I want to conceptualise that sound. I want to figure out the other side of the music scene, which is speaking to the people. I know how to speak to musicians, I know how to speak to people that understand the vibes and the sonics and all that, but I need to know how to be able to translate it to the ordinary person as well, and not try to be so pretentious that  I build it up so much that its lost to the everyday listener.”

“I know what I want to do, I know what I want to achieve, but I’ve been waiting for the perfect studio, or the perfect band, or for everyone to be available: I just need to start.”

I’ve got a question from a fan. Would you say that the church is a breeding ground for RnB and Soul artists?

“Rhythm ‘n Blues and Gospel are two peas in a pod. For me, the way I learnt to sing R&B was by listening to Worship songs. I still believe R&B is the perfect form of Soul music. To sing from here, from deep within, was taught to me in church. Also the understanding that you’re gifting as a singer. That it comes from a different place. You almost become subservient to the music.” 

  “I know that the reason why a lot of R&B singers care so much about the music is because we’re not supposed to be in front of it, we’re supposed to be a part of it. Same in a worship setting as well, in the sense that you're never supposed to put yourself forward. I think that’s also why I struggle to put myself out there, because humility was taught to me in my art.”

“I think for R&B artists it's only natural for them to move from worship music into R&B, it's kind of a natural progression”

Coming from starting out on the church stage and after performing for all these years, how would you describe your specific sound? Looking at your past discography and your upcoming releases?

“The funny thing is that I’m still trying to figure that out for myself. It’s interesting because when I compose or produce songs I always try to make them different. As an artist you don't want to do the same thing that you just did.”

“One thing I can say is that my voice is the thing that brings all the sounds together. What I mean by that is the way that I approach songs vocally, in my writing, my delivery and the way that I just sing in general.” 

“So my sound kind of bounces to different places but the word that I’ve been using mostly is Soul music.”

“Soul music means different things in different eras I would say. ‘Stay The Night’ is more 80s funk vibes while my singles before ‘Before You Go To Bed’ are more 2000s Usher vibes. But what I’ve kind of tapped into is whatever Soul meant in each era. What I’m releasing next seems like a sound that is kind of popular at the moment, which is early 2000s RnB -Neptunes, Kelis, that kind of vibe.”

“When I was composing this latest single I didn't know that's what I was going to do. I made the beat and it didn’t sound like me at all, until I laid my voice on it. I think that's going to be the key thing that ties my sound together, my voice. I’ve been holding back a bit because I’ve been enjoying producing and doing the musician things but I have to come back to the fact that my voice is the main thing that has gotten people’s attention.”

“The easiest one word answer to your question would be “smooth”. The sound that’s on the way is going to be smooth, it's going to be clean. Keep your eye on the next three singles. The music is done and I’m ready to put it out.”

You’ve spoken about the genre of Soul a few times. How would you describe Soul music? 

“People would say Soul doesn't necessarily exist anymore. When people think of soul music they limit it to MoTown in the sixties and that generation. Personally I think soul music isn't necessarily a genre, it's a feeling that’s specifically tied to Black creative improvised music. Music that people put their whole soul into.”

“If you separate art from this capitalist environment that we live in, that is soul music. Everything we do in this modern era of music we create for profit. ‘Will the masses buy this, will it trend, will it go viral’, all that determines whether we put the song out or not. If you separate music from the state we’re in economically, you’ll see how free music can be and how much better it can be.”

“I would say soul music is made by the people who shut the machine of the industry out, and can make music from within. Those who do it purely for the enjoyment of creating art and being obedient to the art that comes to you.”

Beyond your sound now, when it comes to your writing and your lyrics. Where would you say that comes from, is it strictly personal, or maybe observational?

“For me lyrics are the last thing that comes to me because I’m more musician than singer. The things that come to me easily are melodies and chords and rhythm. The last thing I learned was that I enjoyed making up stories. The single I’m releasing now started off a little bit personal, but I don't like to get too deep, so it kind of takes on its own life.”

“Maybe that’s something I need to still learn. I started off doing music and when I turned 19 I decided ‘Okay you’ve spent all this time taking it in, now make your own’. I like to think of the song as a story on its own. Yes, the idea can come from me, but then I think about what the listener experiences, and how it makes sense to them. As a songwriter it will make sense to me because I wrote it. But if you're giving it to a person blindly it might not, so I try to make it easier for them.”

“A part of me is still influenced by popular music because my Dad still plays Earth Wind and Fire and all of that stuff. The songwriting was really good but it wasn't necessarily too deep. So when it comes to lyricism I try to think of a way to write which is easy on the ear for everyone to receive.”

“When I’m teaching my students, the first thing I tell them about songwriting is that you want your music to be relatable. Once you put your music out there it's no longer yours, it's now the listeners and they’re gonna do with it whatever they think. So why not make it easier for them?”

What’s the teaching gig like?

“Surprisingly validating. It’s really fulfilling because you realise that what you know is valuable. You kind of put value in yourself by realising that you can add value to someone else’s. At first I didn't want to be that musician who teaches but I obviously needed a steady paycheck. Once I did though I naturally fell in love with it, because I love music.”

“My biggest thing about teaching is trying to transfer this passion that I have over to my students. It’s like ‘Okay you’re studying music now. Do you love this thing? And if you do, how much of your time do you want to give to it?’ Both my parents are teachers as well, so it was easy for me to fall into the natural rhythms of teaching.”

“Teaching is giving students these small moments, something as small as them learning ‘All of Me’ by John Legend and playing it for someone else to impress them, that’s what life is about. Taking these small moments and passing them on and letting them having their moments as well”

“When I started I thought they needed to sound perfect, but I quickly realised that they just need to walk away with one little thing that I taught them. I’ve been doing it for four years now, and I would still be doing it if I didn't enjoy it.”

What can we expect from your new single ‘Back + Forth’, and from you going forward?

“This is the year you’re going to be seeing the most of Seth Grey. I’m saying that because I’ve been working on a few different things and that itch to put things out is turning into a rash at this point.”

“At the end of last year I worked on a film with a really close friend Joshua de Koker. We made a short film about a jam session in Cape Town. Josh and Rishi wrote the film, and I composed the score. The story goes that it's a meet cute romcom vibe set at a jam session in Cape Town. You’ll see a lot of familiar jazz faces there, because the film was actually based on a jam session that we had.”

“Other than that, ‘Back + Forth’ is me just getting things out there that I need to let go of, so that I can start working on my new material.”

“There’s a lot in store, I’m playing here and there, I’m producing, I’m vocal arranging - you're just gonna see so much of me. And if I don't, then I’ve chickened out, so I have to hold myself accountable here.”

For my last question, how would you describe the current cultural landscape of the city, and where do you see it going from here?

“To be honest, I wouldn't say it's in the best place. Artists aren’t motivated to be original anymore. We’ve been told that originality isn't what the local audience wants to hear. On top of that the city is too separated. What’s happening in the Cape Town jazz scene is something completely different to the hip hop scene, to the rock scene, to the alternative scene. So all of us are kind of struggling.”

“The people that are doing the best are the people working in corporate spaces. Even myself, doing weddings and functions and all - we’re playing for foreigners and we’re playing for capital. Which does not breed creativity and it doesn’t feed the ecosystem. We’re still in a very tough space where it's us against everyone.” 

“While not demotivating, it's very frustrating. I do think things will change in the future, I just can't tell you how. Once we come together and ask that question, and more people ask the same, then maybe we can see a better future. But at the moment with the political landscape and how international the city is getting - we’ve even seen some international artists come through and sell out our venues that we don't even have access to.

  “But we can’t just sit back and let them take our city. Sometimes the best things come from being pushed into a corner. It might have to get to a point where artists are pushed into a corner for us to tell the city “Here we are, we are good enough”. The reason we have all these artists overseas is because we’re kind of one of the best countries in the world, and we can play at that level. We don't need to be sending musicians overseas to be playing there. The reason we’re all leaving is because there isn't an actual industry here.”

“It's a tough question to answer. Are we being honest with ourselves about what our reality is? Are we really doing everything we can in order to change that reality? It feels unfair that it's up to us to do, because we don't have the resources or the power.” 

“But we have the art, which I would say is our power.”

Check out Seth’s latest single on digital streaming platforms, and stay tuned for more coming from him.

I know I’m excited for what he has in store. The sound of Cape Town awaits.